Curse

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

(I promise to keep this short)....

I'm not completely finished with the game yet..and was going to reserve the Underworld and FoW for after I was done with the storyline....however a couple of peolpe that I party up with on a regular basis begged me to come along as they needed another good trapper. So, seeing as they've helped me as often as I've needed it, I obliged and took my turn in the underworld. It was myself(R/Mo), two other rangers(all set for trapping), a healer monk, a smiting monk, a warrior, and a nuker. It wasn't a bad party at all. The smiter monk wasn't all that great....but he was a healer going smite for the UW, so we cut him some slack. He was also smart enough to stay out of the way and to assist the rangers and the nuker. Which I liked seeing, I enjoyed seeing a player that realized his weakness and took a secondary role even though his role throughout most of the game was very much primary. So we tell everyone NOT to take the quest...as we wanted to clear the initial spawn area first. So the trappers go to work....we must of set 15 traps on that first set of stairs...then I go and pull the mob and run back behind the traps and /chat "don't attack...just watch this". The mob comes running through..bursts into flames, clouds of dust go shooting into the air, spikes come shooting out of the ground....10 seconds later the mob falls dead...well before they ever got near any of our party members. I see the monks and the warrior saying "holy crap...what was that!!!!"...yes, I chuckled a bit...it was nice to finally prove the value of a Ranger

long story short...we noticed the koreans come up strong and that we were about to lose favor almost immediately after going into the UW...so we told everyone to keep cool...not to rush...and to try not to aggro anything until we've had a chance to trap, as we were certain Korea would be holding it for the rest of the evening. Not 10 minutes after we said this did the warrior say "OMG WE JUST LOST FAVOR WHAT DO WE DO!!!"...and then immediately aggro everything in the area in an attempt to 'tank so we could trap'..

moral of the story: Warriors...please stop acting like warriors.

arnansnow · Jul 11, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Do you automatically leave Uw or FoW when you lose favor? I wouldn't think so.

Aniewiel · Jul 11, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

I don't know that either, Arnan. It doesn't make sense that, if a party is in the midst of a quest/mission, that they'd be booted. I would think that it would just mean that no new missions could be started once favor is lost.

salja Wachi · Jul 11, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

no you do not get kicked out of the UW. you get to stay till you die

so it seems to me as if your UW story turned into another W/Mo noob runs wild and screws up the mission story lol.

how many of those are out there?

lmao

DrSLUGFly · Jul 11, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

no, I stayed in fissure for 4 hours last week. You just have to get in while you have favor. In fact, while we were in fissure, we lost favor and then regained it before coming out again

and yes, it wasn't until fissure that I saw just how cool rangers can be (why is this never noticed on regular quest/missions?)

Anarkii · Jul 11, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

lol why were u taking a warrior with a trapper group

A trapper group doesnt need any class other than trappers...no nukers, no healers...you use effectiveness.

Dumachum · Jul 11, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Because too many clueless fools perpetrate the misinformation around to too many new impressionable players that Rangers/Necros/Mesmers = worthless and aren't needed when you can just form a "perfect party", as they put it, of 4 W/Mo's, 2 E/mos, and 2 monks.

Esprit · Jul 11, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

why is this never noticed on regular quest/missions?

Because most people don't have the patience to wait for rangers to set traps or whatnot. They want instant action, rather than be tactical or wait, even if it means an easier time with mobs.

I've had a warrior running around aggroing stuff, and we'd be like "wtf?" and he replied, "I want to kill stuff."

asdar · Jul 11, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

I think he was just saying the warrior panicked because he didn't know that you'd stay in there and kind of did a self-fulfilling prophecy type thing.

Then because they died they couldn't go back in and try again.

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

no..if you're in UW of FoW you stay until your party is killed...which is why we told everyone to be extra cautious...we wouldn't be able to get back to UW for the rest of the evening, so we wanted to spend some time there..

Yes..it did turn into Warrior runs around attempting to tank everything. Must have been his first time in UW as well(seeing as how impressed he was with trappers...they're essential in UW)....I'm sure he wasn't aware of the fact that he'd get hit three times and be dead.

Salja...I don't know why people don't realize how important a ranger is before UW/Fissure. I've been playing a trapper for some time...and unfortunately I have to explain to everyone in the party(on ANY quest/mission) what it is I am doing when I'm trapping & pulling...apparently the initial reaction is to charge the mob that is rushing you...most of the time the warriors tank a step or two in front my traps...deeming them essentially useless. Rangers are hard to play...so it's easy to screw it up and have no idea what you are doing...but more importantly alot of our use is rendered useless by thickheaded tanks....that understand only one thing "Slashing = death = win"

Anarkii...wasn't my group...I was asked to come along and so I did...and I did my job. I didn't concern myself with the why other people were selected

Anarkii · Jul 11, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

n(why is this never noticed on regular quest/missions?)

That was a thing of a past. Rangers are the flavor of the month now...everywhere...tombs, UW, missions

Racthoh · Jul 11, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Augh I hate trappers. Mostly in the UW. In the time it takes for them just to lay the traps and pray they actually know how to lure the enemy over them (as opposed to asking me, the tank to do it for them), the rest of the party could've killed them. That and when they spend a minute setting traps for say one ataxe or a few grasping darkness. What the hell... what a waste of time.

Yes, traps are good, sorry if I gave off that impression. But don't set traps for every single enemy...

What bugs me is when I aggro a bunch of stuff, and take on a majority of the enemies myself and the other 7 fall before I do when attempting to hold half the number on me. And they have the nerve to call me the noob...

Galatea · Jul 11, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Oh man, that is horrible about the warrior lol -_-;;

May I ask what trapper build you're using? I'd love to see that in action.

Diomedes · Jul 11, 2005, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esprit

Because most people don't have the patience to wait for rangers to set traps or whatnot. They want instant action, rather than be tactical or wait, even if it means an easier time with mobs.

I've had a warrior running around aggroing stuff, and we'd be like "wtf?" and he replied, "I want to kill stuff."

I would actually say it's because most missions don't require all that much from you. The enemies are often quite easy and the mobs aren't that hard.

People don't want to take the time to outsmart their enemies when charging in will get the job done. However when mobs start to get really tough suddenly using traps and nerfing enemy attacks becomes very useful and hence noticed. Just a thought.

-Diomedes

salja Wachi · Jul 11, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

i agree with you 100% algren

that is why i take my R/W into UW. trappers are the most important character ylou can bring there.

my favorite group is 5 Ranger trappers, and a monk. or 4 rangers an E/mo and a monk smiter

no need for more than 6 in the party either way (which means more drops for us

)

anyway warriors are neither neede nor wanted by me in UW.

FoW sore a good warrior is always welcome, but UW? no way

salja Wachi · Jul 11, 2005, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Augh I hate trappers. Mostly in the UW. In the time it takes for them just to lay the traps and pray they actually know how to lure the enemy over them (as opposed to asking me, the tank to do it for them), the rest of the party could've killed them. That and when they spend a minute setting traps for say one ataxe or a few grasping darkness. What the hell... what a waste of time.

Yes, traps are good, sorry if I gave off that impression. But don't set traps for every single enemy...

What bugs me is when I aggro a bunch of stuff, and take on a majority of the enemies myself and the other 7 fall before I do when attempting to hold half the number on me. And they have the nerve to call me the noob...

lmao dude if you "aggor a bunch of stuff" in UW you are a noob :P

Anarkii · Jul 11, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Augh I hate trappers. Mostly in the UW. In the time it takes for them just to lay the traps and pray they actually know how to lure the enemy over them (as opposed to asking me, the tank to do it for them), the rest of the party could've killed them. That and when they spend a minute setting traps for say one ataxe or a few grasping darkness. What the hell... what a waste of time.

Yes, traps are good, sorry if I gave off that impression. But don't set traps for every single enemy...

What bugs me is when I aggro a bunch of stuff, and take on a majority of the enemies myself and the other 7 fall before I do when attempting to hold half the number on me. And they have the nerve to call me the noob...

That reaffirms my belief that trapper group should be that only. No tanks, nukers and healers...they just mess it up

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Augh I hate trappers. Mostly in the UW. In the time it takes for them just to lay the traps and pray they actually know how to lure the enemy over them (as opposed to asking me, the tank to do it for them), the rest of the party could've killed them. That and when they spend a minute setting traps for say one ataxe or a few grasping darkness. What the hell... what a waste of time.

Yes, traps are good, sorry if I gave off that impression. But don't set traps for every single enemy...

What bugs me is when I aggro a bunch of stuff, and take on a majority of the enemies myself and the other 7 fall before I do when attempting to hold half the number on me. And they have the nerve to call me the noob...

thanks for proving a point

Galatea...my build was
Expertise 8
Wildnerness Survival 13
Marksmanship 12

Ideally I'd like to get expertise a few points higher and marksmanship a few points lower...but I was actually questing before I was asked to go UW so I didn't have enough refund points to do it. I'd like to see expertise up around 12 or 13 and marsmanship down to 8(ish)

Skills
Power Shot
Serpents Quickness
Dust Trap
Flame Trap
Barbed Trap
Quickening Zephyre
Healing Spring
Orison of Healing

if you'd like to go UW with us my IGN is Algren Cole...One of my buddies is a trapper as well and as long as we cna find a 3rd we're always willing to put on a show for those who haven't been fortunate enough to witness the poise and etiquette that is a good trapper

Divinus · Jul 11, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

UW isn't so bad with the PUGs in my experience. Most of the non-trapper groups are smart enough to use the warrior wall on the tight corners and it pretty much becomes a joke.

Fissure on the other hand can be a real bitch when you get dumb asses in your group.

sleazeh · Jul 11, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I wouldn't go near UW with a PUG. I have an abnormal hatred of PUGs for the most part, but certainly never, ever, for UW.

We sometimes use a warrior as a tank, but it's actually quite inefficient in my mind. Normally, I wouldn't advise taking a warrior at all, ever.

The 2 setups that seem to work best, IMO, are all ranger trappers, or a smiting/protection setup from a pair of monks as the core.

Our guild generally use either 2, 3, or 4 person groups. For the 2 person set-up, we run a smiting monk as primary damage dealer and herder and a protection monk bonded to him providing healing as required. When we up the numbers, we add in either one or two nukers (one often being a fast cast mes/ele, with the added benefit of empathy) to speed up the killing process. The drops for 2 people is great, particularly on smite runs, which is why we tend to prefer the smaller groups.

The only downside to ultra small groups (2 or 3 people), other than a reduced kill speed, is that to progress past the Behemoths, we either dont have the firepower to out-DOT the healing springs, and/or the Nature's they drop strip the enchantments on our smite/protection pair. A couple of nukers do the trick though, in my experience 2 nukers can wipe a behemoth emplacement with enough points in fire. Only one nuke has a harder time of it.

All that being said, Rangers rock the UW as well. It's tailored made for trapping, and with some poison degen added in, things drop real quick. Not to meantion the advantage to having a puller with good range and whirling defence, the ability to cause blindness, etc.

As I've said, for the most part warriors are not neccessary in UW - the have nothing to do, unless being used as primary tank. It's not the kind of place where swinging your sword around accomplishes very much other than serving as a distraction to provide the rest of the group the opportunity to drop the enemies.